It's amazing how the zombie cubs of the lion pack just blindly follow what he says. Even more amazing how he doesn't address our points. He is the kind of trader I used to have to watch out for on the trading floor at a major broker dealer...
I don't agree with the Jp$ trade but Greg's work stands for itself. I feel like his intentions is to help us lions out. I don't think your portfolio should be a clone of Greg's, but he definetly share oppurtunity. I like Greg, better yet love, but I walk with him, not follow.
Sweet, I cut my teeth on the CBOE. Glad to see someone who knows the lunacy of this site. AND now it makes sense you understood the term negative gamma.
Speaking of negative gamma. Maybe you or Will could help me understand something. yesterday Will asked if we knew what that meant. From my perspective if broker/dealers are negative gamma then the issue becomes how they hedge that out...delta hedging would potentially exasperate market movements and increase volatility vs dampening vol if they were positive gamma. What is your perspective?
You Chris, can you give me time to respond. Have to go into a meeting. Based on your response, you will catch on quickly. I would like to respond without rushing. I guarantee you once you understand the concept you won't need anyone to tell you anything. In fact, charting was the main way I used to approach my trades. Now it's secondary. Once you know the order-flow, you will look at things differently.
I mean unless you very much wish to own JPM at that strike, it’s a lousy risk/reward profile. More importantly isn’t if I like the risk profile; it’s how poorly he explains it to his readers.
Oh I get it. Trust me. There are a lot of new traders selling jpm puts for $.05-$.10. What scares me is how many contracts they would have to sell for that to be worthwhile and whether or not they understand the immense obligation they have should the trade go against them.
So we are in the Trojan horse, what's the move once we are in the gates. This trade should come with a disclaimer to revolve this trade into an anti-jpm trade, to balance the overall objective.
Selling options can be tough on under capitalized traders, I know, caught in the covid crash March 2020. One must have $$$$ if the market events turn on you.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you still short puts? It's important that the community clearly understands that they are obligating themselves to buying 100 shares at the strike price if assigned. Their margin requirements will increase as the price falls toward the strike. The price to "buy to close" shoots up exponentially. Which sounds like what happened to you. Again thanks for sharing your experience.
My BABA calls are down 40% by now and I even lose on my hedge put since I bought it when BABA was down. Now its not falling anymore and it expires Friday. This is getting me crazy.
Yup. I'm down too. Mine are good until May, but still.
I don't have many grips with him, but he needs to own up and tell folks. I mean, he does say he'll take care of us. Many give him a monthly subscription. I also don't know why he didn't recommend airlines or cruises. Starting to feel jaded. Might just lurk here from time and time and unsubscribe. I don't even know who his lions are. They don't seem to live here, lol.
BABA is bearish short term but still bullish long term. Lets hope the pattern turns into inverted head and shoulders and go back up. I have a tiny position at risk so I'm not sweating.
I entered a tiny position in NFLX today. Let's it goes up.
liquidity. tight spreads = more liquidity. In practical terms there is more demand for the liquid option and you will get a better price. An illiquid option can make it very costly to exit a position.
Thanks so much! So, for trading purposes I want more liquidity for tighter spreads which mean better pricing? I want to make sure I am thinking about this correctly.
Correct. Tighter spreads will lead to better entry/exit. For trading in and out of options that is very important. One note: for Greg's short JPM put strategy/example here. It is not uncommon for liquidity to completely dry up in such a deep OTM play. For example if you check your level II on the March 26 110 put you will see zero bidders. This isnt so much a problem for Greg's play here as he wants the option to expire worthlessly. But I did want to make the distinction.
In this market, and for me personally, I am not long on anything. I like to be in and out of stock or option contract within the same day sometimes a couple of days, then I am watching them like a hawk. Thanks man for the reply back.
I know this is heresy, but I just can't get myself to buy at these all time highs on JPM. Besides many indicators are screaming "overvalued". it'll come down eventually- the cycle thing right- then that's when I get in.
The market is over valued but it keep on going up and going up. It can go up longer than you have patience. What you can do is have tiny positions so you don't feel the FOMO. I use spreads to stay tiny. Keep atleasts 50% buying power in reserve.
You buy at the Ask price and sell at the Bid price. The fairest price is the middle of Ask and Bid price. This is the price that you want. Very wide Ask/Bid spreads make it very hard to trade at the middle of the price range. Pay attention to the spreads at different strikes.
I get that this is a solid trade but really?feeding the beast, I will not support jpm by buying their stock, even if it returned 100%. It's about ethics and it saddens me that Greg is setting aside the moral hazard of investing in Jpm for a few percentage point gain. This is why these evil companies get so big, people don't vote with their money in the fomo. Fuck jpm
I don't save in dollars, I save in silver bullion and crypto, outside the system. I also buy assets and have 0 in a savings account. I invest in commodities. I get paid in USD and that's it, if I could choose differently I would. I have a choice to invest in jpm, I don't have a choice right now in what my labor is paid in.
Greg I love you man and am gratefully appreciative of all the work you put out. You work like a dog, I mean lion, and I didn't mean to smear you. You have been a fundamental part of my evolution. I just don't agree with this trade
If you read these comments, do you have anything to say for your misunderstanding of the risk of selling puts? You say you must/should first own the stock. Do you know why that only increases your risk, not decreases? This is not selling calls...
The goal here is to maximize gains in an upward price movement. This is not a hedge. If price goes down you lose because of this leverage, if it goes up you gain from the leverage. Selling puts is just a leveraged long play
Thank you for sharing this. I bought your book but haven't had time to read much, even though I keep it near me in case I have a chance to read it at any opportunity. Your example and explaining it has enabled me to sell puts (and of course reviewing that section of your book) when I didn't dare to before. I was scared to try it. LOL
I completely let this rally get away from me today and sat it out. Just didn't see that coming with the 10 year as high as it is. Will anything repress this market anymore? Seems I should just go back to strictly technical trading and enter trades on the SP as soon as it hits the 4hr 200ma.
Lions don't sell the MAR26.2021 115P it's already oversold (see my comment below). 110 is getting paid better (2.18) don't ask me why. But all have small open interest. The big ones are at MARCH19.2021 @ prices from 0.08, 0.10 and 0.14 (for the 110P, 115P and 120P).
the 110 is at 2.18 because its just market makers sitting there with high asks because there are no bids. There isnt a real market for the 110. watch ill change the price to 2.13...done
yea i put a sell order at $2.13 to illustrate the lack of bidders. if you check the level II you can see all the market makers lowered their bid from 2.18 to 2.13...i'll raise my ask to 2.15 and you will see the marker makers follow me.
No Justin. If you want to be bullish on the trade then fine. There is no hedge. Your effective doing the same thing. ALSO, the margin requirements (especially on a $144 stock) are a lot.
Selling a PUT is the same as owning 100 shares and selling a CALL. You do not need to own any shares when you sell a PUT. You can own 100 short shares and sell a PUT but you are no longer bullish on the stock.
You don't have to own the collateral to sell puts. You can.
Anyway, selling a put will make your margin grow for an amount close to the number of shares of your option (100 x JPM if you sell 1 put) because you have to be able to buy the shares if yo get assigned (normally if the price hits the break even).
If you own 100 shares and dont mind parting with them then ya you can earn some premium by doing that. the biggest risk selling a covered call is the shares being "called away" from you, but you still keep the premium.
Greg, you missed the margin requirements for the short put....come on man
It's amazing how the zombie cubs of the lion pack just blindly follow what he says. Even more amazing how he doesn't address our points. He is the kind of trader I used to have to watch out for on the trading floor at a major broker dealer...
I don't agree with the Jp$ trade but Greg's work stands for itself. I feel like his intentions is to help us lions out. I don't think your portfolio should be a clone of Greg's, but he definetly share oppurtunity. I like Greg, better yet love, but I walk with him, not follow.
Which trading floor will?
RBS in Stamford, CT. Equities market risk desk.
Sweet, I cut my teeth on the CBOE. Glad to see someone who knows the lunacy of this site. AND now it makes sense you understood the term negative gamma.
Speaking of negative gamma. Maybe you or Will could help me understand something. yesterday Will asked if we knew what that meant. From my perspective if broker/dealers are negative gamma then the issue becomes how they hedge that out...delta hedging would potentially exasperate market movements and increase volatility vs dampening vol if they were positive gamma. What is your perspective?
You Chris, can you give me time to respond. Have to go into a meeting. Based on your response, you will catch on quickly. I would like to respond without rushing. I guarantee you once you understand the concept you won't need anyone to tell you anything. In fact, charting was the main way I used to approach my trades. Now it's secondary. Once you know the order-flow, you will look at things differently.
Be back at you....
haha indeed. Likewise. Were you a trader on the CBOE?
Yes, At 17, I cashed in my EE series bonds and bought 3 Apr 195 calls in the OEX for 1 9/16 and sold it a day later for 2 9/16.
I was hooked and still am 35 years later :).
I was a Runner, then at 21 my boss rented a seat for me. My acronym was BPA.
haha that explains your reaction to selling tails risk!
I mean unless you very much wish to own JPM at that strike, it’s a lousy risk/reward profile. More importantly isn’t if I like the risk profile; it’s how poorly he explains it to his readers.
100% correct
Oh I get it. Trust me. There are a lot of new traders selling jpm puts for $.05-$.10. What scares me is how many contracts they would have to sell for that to be worthwhile and whether or not they understand the immense obligation they have should the trade go against them.
Why buy JPM stock ?? They are criminal scum , immoral to buy , like buying mass destuction weapons
We weaponize the system against them.. its that simple.
Yes , by buying physical silver not by buying their scum stock
So we are in the Trojan horse, what's the move once we are in the gates. This trade should come with a disclaimer to revolve this trade into an anti-jpm trade, to balance the overall objective.
Scum of the earth! It's like buying shares of the Federal Reserve. I think deep down inside Greg loves the Federal Reserve. hahahahaha
Technically JPM owns 29% of the outstanding federal reserve shares as of 2018...so it literally is like buying fed shares ;-)
It's easy to make money in this market but it's a work of art to do it ethically.
with that in mind you shouldnt by any stock. no google, no tesla, no green energy, no nothing.
You want to buy JPM stock because JPM is your friend.
Selling options can be tough on under capitalized traders, I know, caught in the covid crash March 2020. One must have $$$$ if the market events turn on you.
When selling naked options, you want to keep lots of buying power in reserve in case events like this happens.
Damn, sorry to hear that...did you close or get assigned?
Had to buy som at a big loss.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you still short puts? It's important that the community clearly understands that they are obligating themselves to buying 100 shares at the strike price if assigned. Their margin requirements will increase as the price falls toward the strike. The price to "buy to close" shoots up exponentially. Which sounds like what happened to you. Again thanks for sharing your experience.
You are smack on!!!
Beware, gm makes out to be foolproof free $$. No, he is misleading his lions.
Two handed economist for sure but better than nobody.
Can't wait for your updates on BABA and NFLX.
My BABA calls are down 40% by now and I even lose on my hedge put since I bought it when BABA was down. Now its not falling anymore and it expires Friday. This is getting me crazy.
Yup. I'm down too. Mine are good until May, but still.
I don't have many grips with him, but he needs to own up and tell folks. I mean, he does say he'll take care of us. Many give him a monthly subscription. I also don't know why he didn't recommend airlines or cruises. Starting to feel jaded. Might just lurk here from time and time and unsubscribe. I don't even know who his lions are. They don't seem to live here, lol.
Your expiry date should be out 4-6 monthly, if so you may recover.
I'm 20% down.
He doesn't talk about losing trades here IMO. I'm stuck in BABA myself with all my powder ...
Correct, loaders never mentioned.
2 handed economist
Stack, minimize the rest.
yeah baba has been horrid, bought down multiple times and still down over 25%....blah
BABA is bearish short term but still bullish long term. Lets hope the pattern turns into inverted head and shoulders and go back up. I have a tiny position at risk so I'm not sweating.
I entered a tiny position in NFLX today. Let's it goes up.
Another question, what does it mean when the spreads on option contracts are tight/close, whereas others have wide spreads?
liquidity. tight spreads = more liquidity. In practical terms there is more demand for the liquid option and you will get a better price. An illiquid option can make it very costly to exit a position.
Thanks so much! So, for trading purposes I want more liquidity for tighter spreads which mean better pricing? I want to make sure I am thinking about this correctly.
Correct. Tighter spreads will lead to better entry/exit. For trading in and out of options that is very important. One note: for Greg's short JPM put strategy/example here. It is not uncommon for liquidity to completely dry up in such a deep OTM play. For example if you check your level II on the March 26 110 put you will see zero bidders. This isnt so much a problem for Greg's play here as he wants the option to expire worthlessly. But I did want to make the distinction.
In this market, and for me personally, I am not long on anything. I like to be in and out of stock or option contract within the same day sometimes a couple of days, then I am watching them like a hawk. Thanks man for the reply back.
I know this is heresy, but I just can't get myself to buy at these all time highs on JPM. Besides many indicators are screaming "overvalued". it'll come down eventually- the cycle thing right- then that's when I get in.
You are correct, don't buy. Markets sectors Change in a blinking of an eye.
The market is over valued but it keep on going up and going up. It can go up longer than you have patience. What you can do is have tiny positions so you don't feel the FOMO. I use spreads to stay tiny. Keep atleasts 50% buying power in reserve.
Another question, what does it mean when the spreads on option contracts are tight/close, whereas others have wide spreads?
Are you talking about the Bid and Ask spread?
You buy at the Ask price and sell at the Bid price. The fairest price is the middle of Ask and Bid price. This is the price that you want. Very wide Ask/Bid spreads make it very hard to trade at the middle of the price range. Pay attention to the spreads at different strikes.
I get that this is a solid trade but really?feeding the beast, I will not support jpm by buying their stock, even if it returned 100%. It's about ethics and it saddens me that Greg is setting aside the moral hazard of investing in Jpm for a few percentage point gain. This is why these evil companies get so big, people don't vote with their money in the fomo. Fuck jpm
Are you feeding the beast by transacting in dollars or some other central bank note? My bet.. yes.
I don't save in dollars, I save in silver bullion and crypto, outside the system. I also buy assets and have 0 in a savings account. I invest in commodities. I get paid in USD and that's it, if I could choose differently I would. I have a choice to invest in jpm, I don't have a choice right now in what my labor is paid in.
Greg I love you man and am gratefully appreciative of all the work you put out. You work like a dog, I mean lion, and I didn't mean to smear you. You have been a fundamental part of my evolution. I just don't agree with this trade
If you read these comments, do you have anything to say for your misunderstanding of the risk of selling puts? You say you must/should first own the stock. Do you know why that only increases your risk, not decreases? This is not selling calls...
The goal here is to maximize gains in an upward price movement. This is not a hedge. If price goes down you lose because of this leverage, if it goes up you gain from the leverage. Selling puts is just a leveraged long play
Biden is your friend.
Thank you for sharing this. I bought your book but haven't had time to read much, even though I keep it near me in case I have a chance to read it at any opportunity. Your example and explaining it has enabled me to sell puts (and of course reviewing that section of your book) when I didn't dare to before. I was scared to try it. LOL
I completely let this rally get away from me today and sat it out. Just didn't see that coming with the 10 year as high as it is. Will anything repress this market anymore? Seems I should just go back to strictly technical trading and enter trades on the SP as soon as it hits the 4hr 200ma.
Greg how much did you sell your 110P for (which expiry ?). The ones I found sell for peanuts (between 0.08 and 0.51 /100) ?
I meant 115P
Lions don't sell the MAR26.2021 115P it's already oversold (see my comment below). 110 is getting paid better (2.18) don't ask me why. But all have small open interest. The big ones are at MARCH19.2021 @ prices from 0.08, 0.10 and 0.14 (for the 110P, 115P and 120P).
the 110 is at 2.18 because its just market makers sitting there with high asks because there are no bids. There isnt a real market for the 110. watch ill change the price to 2.13...done
Yeah it's 2.13 now. Did you bid ?
yea i put a sell order at $2.13 to illustrate the lack of bidders. if you check the level II you can see all the market makers lowered their bid from 2.18 to 2.13...i'll raise my ask to 2.15 and you will see the marker makers follow me.
I honestly don't think that's worth it by the way, except the march 26 110P @ 2.18.
Lions, you're free to do that trade on any bullish collateral, if You find one now.
Is it advisable to at least buy/own 100 shares before I sell a PUT since each contract is worth 100 shares?
No Justin. If you want to be bullish on the trade then fine. There is no hedge. Your effective doing the same thing. ALSO, the margin requirements (especially on a $144 stock) are a lot.
Tank you!
Anytime man Cheers!
Only if you sell calls. Puts give the buyer the right to sell the shares to the seller of the put. So you must hold the corresponding cash to do that.
Thank you!
Selling a PUT is the same as owning 100 shares and selling a CALL. You do not need to own any shares when you sell a PUT. You can own 100 short shares and sell a PUT but you are no longer bullish on the stock.
Just realized I need $15,000 to buy 100 shares of JPM first?
You don't have to own the collateral to sell puts. You can.
Anyway, selling a put will make your margin grow for an amount close to the number of shares of your option (100 x JPM if you sell 1 put) because you have to be able to buy the shares if yo get assigned (normally if the price hits the break even).
You would better own it if you sell calls though.
So if I hold GLD I should sell OTM calls then ?
If you own 100 shares and dont mind parting with them then ya you can earn some premium by doing that. the biggest risk selling a covered call is the shares being "called away" from you, but you still keep the premium.