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EBERHARD HOEHL's avatar

I believe that the economic system is being set up for the Antichrist.

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throwaway's avatar

It has already been that way since the 1970s when they converted it over to fiat.

Ponzi's take awhile to unravel but the dynamics are the same every time.

Just like a ponzi collapse, money printing eventually destroys the market by causing legitimate producers to leave the market when they are unable to make profit in terms of purchasing power.

This leaves only state-run entities which are supported by a money printer, through preferential government handouts or loans. Any business with a leverage to asset ratio overunity meets this criteria.

The hard line in the sand for producers will occur when debt growth exceeds GDP. That's sometime between now and 2030 depending on how much money they print. From there full collapse happens chaotically continually worsening. It can take as long as 50 years for non-market socialism to collapse (and that is what this is after the failure). A slow creeping ruin, circling the drain, resources becoming ever more scarce, order breaking down. Shortages to sustaining shortage to enslavement/slavery to death.

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Mike S's avatar

Well said, the fiat dollar ponzi scheme is near an end as people realize gold and Bitcoin are the real money that costs to create and has limited (in the case of Bitcoin) supply.

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charles leone's avatar

It's unraveling now. Why wait until 2030? Small and medium sized businesses are dying. Only the Corporate Cartels will survive.

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throwaway's avatar

There's a difference between a sprectrum where some weeds still exists, and a completely barren lawn after you've blackout tarped it. The tarp is what's coming for us by that point of no return.

It is unraveling, but it hasn't hit the point of no return yet. That occurs when debt growth exceeds GDP.

If they slash Social Security and Medicare completely, that could potentially buy a few years to fix the budget through austerity measures, but absent that it goes to state-run cartels, following same structure as any communist state that values control (through debt) over ownership.

Without these slashes, all that's left is Concentration and Consolidation until there is one or two apparatus, and they then become nationalized, then comes executive order 10-289.

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Lawrence's avatar

To: throwaway,

Would you please define this phrase that you use: "...asset ratio overunity..."

"Any business with a leverage to asset ratio overunity meets this criteria." ???

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throwaway's avatar

leverage to asset ratio, is just a ratio of debt to assets.

unity is 1, over unity is >1.

In layman's terms, any amount of debt which exceeds the value of the assets. Production should stop but doesn't because they've received funds from a money-printer in various forms of debt since giving cash bailouts outright provides no cover. Debt can be written off/down later.

Hopefully that clarifies.

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Donovan McDonald's avatar

Rearden... is that you?

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throwaway's avatar

Personally, I lean more towards Ragnar's philosophy, though I did like Rearden for a few choice parts, like his response to his court tribunal. Overall its a nice story which portrays elements of societal failures to communism somewhat realistically, albeit it ignores the fact that the principles it promotes are not properly defined, and she ignore's inheritance and privilege.

Excerpt:

"A prisoner brought to trial can defend himself only if there is an objective principle of justice recognized by his judges, a principle upholding his rights, which they may not violate and which he can invoke. The law, by which you are trying me, holds that there are no principles, that I have no rights and that you may do with me whatever you please. Very well, Do it."

"Mr. Rearden, the law which you are denouncing is based on the highest principle - the principle of the public good."

Who is the public? What does it hold as its good? There was a time when men believed that 'the public good' was a concept to be defined by a code of moral values and that no man had the right to seek his good through the violation of the rights of another.

It is now believed that my fellow men may sacrifice me in any manner they please for the sake of whatever they deem to be their own good, if they believe that they may seize my property simply because they need it - well, so does any burglar. There is only this difference: the burglar does not ask me to sanction his act."

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Randy Best's avatar

2030? Do we even have that long?

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throwaway's avatar

It is entirely based on debt growth vs GDP.

The more that is printed, the quicker the threshold happens.

Running just the government's public deficit no changes, with no extra spending has them reaching that threshold in 2030. More = Sooner, but it won't fail overnight.

The point of no return is a inflection point after which failure is chaotic but guaranteed given sufficient time. We will then get to see an example and details of what Mises meant by the economic calculation problem (back in the 1930s), as well as the other 5 intractable failures of central hierarchical systems (central planning).

I imagine the ECP to be more like a n-body limited visibility astrophysics like problem.

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EBERHARD HOEHL's avatar

Thanks for your input.

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BooBoo's avatar

This is all noise to make the rich richer and richer and the poor poorer and poorer...Fact

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BooBoo's avatar

The U.S.A. = Corrupt = Liars = Fact

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Vdvupur's avatar

Like Canada, or any Nation is any different. Q. Why do you have such a hard-on for the USA?

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BooBoo's avatar

Yes most all nations but the USA is # 1...

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coinwaterfall's avatar

unless the 'poor' uses the system to circumvent

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Christobane's avatar

The poor don’t have the means to circumvent the system that’s why they’re poor if they did they wouldn’t be poor

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coinwaterfall's avatar

that's where your wrong. learning on one's own is empowerment. anyone can circumvent the system. the belief in hopelessness is not the way to financial security.

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Christobane's avatar

If was that simple there wouldn’t b any poor people in the world

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coinwaterfall's avatar

who said anything about being simple? having a non emotional relationship to your own finances, taking responsibility for one's self to make a plan to stick to, and developing disciplne is not simple. what's simple is generalizing while giving up and making excuses. be the change you want to see in your own world.

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Matt's avatar

The writing is on the wall. Bible prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes.

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Argiem's avatar

That's a good thing, right?

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... if you like state-run cartels - Narco/Bitcoin - a risk-on shove into the gooble-gobble.

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Cheryl Pareti's avatar

And most of us know who that AC is no doubt in my mind have known this for quite sometime "Mark of The Beast" is coming soon , dark days are coming !!!

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Dee's avatar

Trump ac?

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Cheryl Pareti's avatar

Absolutely

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Jake's avatar

Bitcoin is a derivative of the US dollar. When the dollar collapses so will Bitcoin. The only way to preserve your wealth during the coming financial and debt market collapse is to get under the dollar in the derivative chain. Ag and Au

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Watchmaker's avatar

But... in the mean time, as Greg advises, ride the Crypto wave as long as you can. then DUMP IT when Greg tell you to. this will increase your net worth.

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coinwaterfall's avatar

no do not do anything someone tells you to do. research it until it makes sense to you and your particular circumstances not anyone elses. that is what financial advice is used for.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

--- slip slidin' away - slip sliden away-ay - you know you're nearer your destination the more you're slip-sliden away. Do you feel it slippin' away?

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Watchmaker's avatar

Of course I do my own research, but when someone is telling me the TRUTH, I abide by it. The Truth is the Truth. Greg (this far has spoken the truth. wen that changes, I'll listen to someone else.

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Jake's avatar

The timing is crucial. For those willing to wait physical Au and Ag will do

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Watchmaker's avatar

Ahhhh that's the crux of the biscuit, yes? 'willing to wait' how long do we have to wait? I'm 69, so not many years ahead of me. I 'hope' the crash is within the next few years, if so, I'm ready. but it it's longer, then....

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Randy Best's avatar

Bad advice.

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Mike S's avatar

You can understand Bitcoin's value in any currency you want. In Canada, it is now worth $ 140,000. It has no more connection to the U.S. dollar than chicken wings do.

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coinwaterfall's avatar

No, Bitcoin itself is not a derivative. It is a digital asset, not a cryptocurrency, and a distinct financial instrument. Derivatives are financial instruments that derive their value from an underlying asset, such as commodities, currencies, or securities. They are contracts that obligate the buyer or seller to buy or sell the underlying asset at a specified price (strike price) on a specific date (expiration date). Examples of derivatives include futures, options, swaps, and perpetual contracts.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a digital currency that exists independently, with its own market price and trading mechanisms. It is not a contract or an agreement to buy or sell something else; it is a standalone asset.

While there are Bitcoin derivatives, such as futures contracts, options, and perpetual swaps, these instruments are separate from the underlying Bitcoin asset. They are designed to allow traders to speculate on or hedge against Bitcoin’s price movements, but they are not Bitcoin itself.

In other words, Bitcoin is the underlying asset, and the derivatives are contracts that reference or track its price. The two are distinct, and Bitcoin is not a derivative.

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Mike S's avatar

Thanks for the thorough explanation. Yes, Bitcoin can be valued any way we want. In the U.S. it is mostly valued in U.S. dollars. In other countries, it is valued in their particular currency. For example, in Canada, it is valued at $140, 000 of the freezable Trudeau dollars. In Switzerland, it is much less than 100,000 francs.

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Jake's avatar

Its value is derived in dollar terms. But I take your point

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coinwaterfall's avatar

no. it does not. 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin

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Mike S's avatar

Ho hum

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coinwaterfall's avatar

so your a dwarf now? lol

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Mike S's avatar

Hi ho Hi ho, it’s off to work we go!

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Mike S's avatar

Hi ho hi ho it’s off to work we go!

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coinwaterfall's avatar

so nice he had to say it twice.

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Puzzle Wizard's avatar

Oh, very much this. Au & Ag …

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Dr. John's avatar

The govt. can hyper inflate the dollar into bitcoin, propping up the dollar, but creating inflation. This would cause bitcoin to go up a lot. If the dollar collapses, how does that lead to bitcoin collapsing as well?

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Jake's avatar

Listen to Rafi Farber. He has a substack and YouTube channel that explains this in detail

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The Do Not Comply Guy's avatar

Jake, for the uninformed, what does this mean? "get under the dollar in the derivative chain"

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Watchmaker's avatar

buy commodities (like GOLD and SILVER).

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Jim Trafficone's avatar

It sounds like a proposal to pave the way for digital enslavement.

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Mike S's avatar

On the contrary, it is the way to escape central bank digital currencies. Bitcoin cannot be controlled by any country whereas CBDC's are totally controlled by governments.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

Here ya go Mike' - Bitcoin Jesus has a few words for the Bitcoin fools who are "building their own financial prison walls around themselves". https://gregreese.substack.com/p/bitcoin-and-the-future-of-financial?publication_id=706779&post_id=152973124&r=240b1n&triedRedirect=true&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Things of value don't need to be sold/pushed - they sell themselves.... Bitcoin has been hijacked.... you thought you were annonymous, but now it might be too late to get out of the trap. For what its worth - what does you good does me good. Libertarians loved the idea of Bitcoin - in fact Bitcoin was a Libertarian idea - private peer to peer exchange to be used as annonymous money transfer - perfect.... but it got hijacked. Roger Ver exposes it. Make it up Mike. Take no shit and tolerate no stupidity!

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... pretty much a strap-on. ;-)

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George Scott Wall's avatar

So instead of real gold they wanna use a fake currency again

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throwaway's avatar

It is a communist plot to push the USD further towards non-market socialist collapse.

We are 5 years out, based on current projections, where legitimate business will not be able to operate and only state-apparatus funded indirectly through money printers will persist. Producers leave the market when they cannot make profit in purchasing power. Where no exchange can occur because money no longer has a required element (store of value), you have a path to ruin.

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coinwaterfall's avatar

gov's are selling gold to buy bitcoin. find out why and what that means

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Randy Best's avatar

Governments are stupid.

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coinwaterfall's avatar

obviously what can you learn from them is the point

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Mike S's avatar

Most people are not intelligent enough to adapt. That is how evolution works. And some who are smart enough, are too closed-minded to even try.

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throwaway's avatar

That is largely because we were born enslaved to a society that tortures all of its members to the point where the intelligent psychologically break and opt out, seeking annihilation and not having children.

When there is an evolutionary pressure imposed favoring the stupid over the intelligent, the parasitic over the producers. That is how evolution works in reverse. Eventually you have a great dying, when the factors that let the society survive as a dependency no longer exist.

You cannot overcome calamity with complex technology without intelligence, and if it has been bred out of people; the entire population gets wiped out and sentience must start again along the evolutionary path (from scratch).

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Doug Youngman's avatar

Tell me about the Bitcoins George... the trouble with mice is you always kill them.

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Timothy Weiss's avatar

Many will disagree with me, but bitcoin and other crypto's are a joke... likely nothing more than a way to gain acceptance for the inevitable CBDC, at which point all these "tokens" will be pushed underground and any perceived value will collapse.

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throwaway's avatar

Anyone familiar with the foundational aspects of currency, monetary policies and structure, and money printing wouldn't disagree. It lacks one of the key three elements needed to be money. You need inherent value, and proof of work isn't value.

Inherent unchangeable scarcity retains value. Such as the limited number and distribution of certain types of atomic elements (Au/Ag)).

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Mike S's avatar

Are you employed by the Fed?

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Timothy Weiss's avatar

You can call me Dr. Fed :)

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Watchmaker's avatar

Yes, they are a JOKE, but... if you can make money (playing on their joke) why not. Greg has been telling us to USE THEM at their own con. this is how you do it. Buy Crypto, Make money then DUMP IT when GREG rigs the alarm. this way, you TAKE some of their Wealth with you.

no different than putting your money into the stock market. that market is totally and completely fake. controlled by the elite for THEIR wealth. but, many of Greg's people and his recommendations are, invest, ride the wave, make your profits and when it's TIME (and Greg will let us know), DUMP IT.

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Randy Best's avatar

Bad advice.

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coinwaterfall's avatar

that's alot of putting your livelyhood in Gregs hands. he is solid in his research but it's your choice and responsibility in the end. Greg has never 'rigs the alarm' and Greg doesn't 'tell anyone' when he does anthing. i've been following him for years and he has great advice. be prepared when he's wrong and that's not his fault. just be careful doing what others tell you or if they don't.

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Watchmaker's avatar

I can't say I've followed him as long as you have, but thus far, he's right on the mark. Same with any financial advisor (which Greg is not technically mine).

I've had a number of so called 'Advisors' over the years, while THEY enriched themselves, they left me treading water. of all of them, Greg has spoken MORE TRUTH than all of them put together. so, for me, I'll bank my $$ with Greg. if he crashes and burns. then I guess I will too.

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coinwaterfall's avatar

just know if you crash and burn you have the $ to lose it all. his portfolio that he does not share is solid and what he does he can lose. can you? knowing it's your responsibility and using money that you can lose and not blink about is what gives a good night sleep possible.

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LV OLD MAN's avatar

buy gold and silver metals

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Brandon Bond's avatar

Our so called leaders have destroyed our currency along with our society.

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Argiem's avatar

We let them.

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throwaway's avatar

I wouldn't agree with that sentiment as a blanket generalization because it lacks appropriate perspective, has no benefit, and focuses on demoralization/torture.

If you look into the actual history, this has been a long time in the making with a lot of Fabian touches surrounding both the adoption of the central school model which indoctrinated many generations towards this goal, as well as Banking, and a few other pre-requisites in the courts.

Most of the groundwork required for this to move forward fully came into being after WW2, but it wasn't until the 1970s where it was fully adopted.

The development of the nuclear bomb gave the government the excuse to create this system despite rational warnings about the inevitable fallout of such super-cycles. Mises wrote about the failures of such systems back in the 1930s. Military conflict in a MAD world was no longer viable, so coercion through debt was what they decided.

Some people draw a distinction between Fabians and Communists but they are in essence the same thing. The only difference is one has a goal that occurs gradually, and the other does so through violent means. The cycles involved all cause violence at the pivot point so correctly naming them is important. They are communist.

These groups also change their names regularly so as to obscure their origin, today they go by Globalist and have infected most places. Communism ideals as a collection of elements without calling it such. There are many who embrace and support those ideals while not recognizing that they are in fact steadfast communists.

When you embrace a economic system that is known to be fundamentally unstable, and known to fail in unsolveable ways, and the system is life sustaining and safety-critical, you are in effect embracing destruction.

Not just for yourself, but for any children you may have, and for your friends. Its a true evil, and characteristic of that evil; those unable to do the mental gymnastics to unwind the many indirections end up being blind/delusional.

Needless to say, it wasn't our leaders that destroyed our currency. They just kept the ball rolling, the dynamics which are mostly impossible to stop. Its a cascade problem. The people who destroyed society were the people who created the systems, and they followed Communist ideology whether they knew it or not.

It comes down to what kind of American are you?

Do you stand by the founding fathers principles (based on Western Philosophy,reasoning and logic), and what they said in the Federalist Papers, or are you fine with accepting a system of "Dead Men Ruling " for all time, through debt with social security payments, and medical expenses paid by those enslaved to work for your own excess.

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Mike S's avatar

An honest money system would make wars few and very short.

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fernando's avatar

How about the country stop adding 1 trillion to the national debt every 90 days and we become financially stable by not spending money we don’t have.

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Skywalker PM's's avatar

The only way to stop them is pegging the dollar to gold. I guess thats not the plan.

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Bob of the bald's avatar

You can peg or you can back. They are not the same. Pegs have been established before and they have always been defeated. Backing a currency with commodities means the currency can be swapped at any bank for that commodity,at least until the powers that want to be change the rules.(1913-1933-1971)

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Mike S's avatar

And look at how the dollar lost purchasing power when Nixon closed the "gold window."

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throwaway's avatar

That won't actually work. Its been tried before by several countries following WW1 iirc. The UK was one such country.

What inevitably happens is the peg gets destabilized by the banks in a variety of ways involving indirect money printing, allowing their group to take advantage of the chaos and arbitrage/steal. Shortages then occur.

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Skywalker PM's's avatar

Explain indirect money printing.

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throwaway's avatar

Any intangible arbitrarily created item can serve the function of money printing indirectly.

The most modern day example would be, Airline Frequent Flyer Miles. The airlines operate at a loss but the entities that create and distribute the miles benefit operates at a profit.

They sell miles to credit card companies so credit card companies can redeem benefits through those programs for their members. In other words the miles become their own currency, and its money printing. Those arbitrage indirections are at preferential rates, and if you go far enough up the chain you eventually hit a bank with a money printer. Government subsidies are also provided to offset that loss as well. So when you look at the actual structure with all the indirections removed, you have a nationalized government funded industry, that is printing money effectively for free via preferential rates with banking. This can act as just an intermediary pass-thru enabling shadow-government, such as what's described in Perkins Economic Hit Man.

Coupons can function similarly, government subsidies are more direct, publicly traded company shares are the same since synthetic shares exist at the market-maker level and with options and you have these entities playing both sides of the playground to profit.

Intangibles that lack inherent value that you create out of thin air, following ponzi structure all meet this criteria.

Through control of the distribution, they can warp the market by artificially limiting supply, or increasing it among several sectors. By doing this, in one country, they can create arbitrage dynamics. All the money starts leaving the country, and they make profit on it.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... can I interest you in a Timeshare in Kwaziland?

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Skywalker PM's's avatar

So what is the solution at the, lowly, citizen level? What safequards can be employed to protect personal assets if the system can be manipulated by every entity for the benefit of corporations?

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throwaway's avatar

There is no solution. There are mitigations one can take on a individual level. Forewarning of what is going to happen is being forearmed.

When the system fails, order fails, and when order fails food security fails.

Those that are prepared for it, have defensible space, resources (both in skills, knowledge, and actual physical resources), trusted community/labor, and sufficient weapons to protect oneself will have a higher chance of survival than others. A lot of people will die, malthusian population dynamics and ecological overshoot are not pretty at the limits to growth.

When society fails, it falls back to the natural order, which is inherently violent. Law doesn't exist in this state of affairs. There is no negotiation unless you can prove you are on equal footing to cause harm to those you negotiate with. That's about it, in short another dark ages.

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Mike S's avatar

It was pegged until the government spent too much money bombing the hell out of Vietnam. Wars would be fewer, smaller, and shorter if gold or Bitcoin had to be spent.

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Ron's avatar

They will peg it to Bitcoin and it will be a digital money like Tether.

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Argiem's avatar

Bitcoin is being used by the banks to usher in their system of control.

The lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.

If you throw your lot in with government, you deserve what you get.

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Mike S's avatar

Only the stupid (or closed-minded) think Bitcoin and CBDCs are the same. In terms of independence and honesty, they are totally opposite, but those who back total control through CBDCs will try to convince you otherwise by muddying the water.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... you didn't muddy any water here. It's still crystal clear - the debt-wheel in the sky keeps on turnin' - don't know where I'll be tomorrow but I won't be lookin' for someone to buy my fuckin' worthless digital casino chips.

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Mike S's avatar

I don’t think they will want your tiny amount of the unlimited supply of dollars.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... how long you been working for the company Mike?

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Tom Freedom's avatar

We are living in crazy times where a speculative investment that’s not backed by anything is considered a financially stable investment.

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Stephen Resnick's avatar

We're following the path of the extinct Roman empire. War, insanity, depravity, and currency degradation. End of another empire.

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throwaway's avatar

Those that seek empire always cause it.

When you don't gift your children the knowledge of your forebearers properly, you enshrine the destructive outcomes that inevitably occur absent that knowledge.

This is exactly how the Roman Republic fell. Caste systems (haves and have nots/plebes patricians), land reform, private armies (military industrial complex), shadowy organizations (economic hitman and their jackal counterparts), demagogues, corruption, brittle failures, and ruin.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... men do things for money they would never do voluntarily.

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Les Ranger's avatar

I want no government involvement in any crypto!

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Mike S's avatar

Will you monitor more than 2.5 million of them? How about they just stay out of the way of Bitcoin to start? Actually the Trump government is already committed that. The spirit of innovation might just put the U.S. on top of the world again. Thank you, President Trump, Elon, Tulsi, Kennedy, and others.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... banks own governments - nothing is left to chance - "They already know who the next President is going to be." [GM]

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LTINFP R2J2's avatar

IMO this is progressing the stage toward the mark of the beast whatever it ends up being. In the mean time, this will bode well for crypto.

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Mike S's avatar

Many of the over 2.5 million "cryptos" are scams. Bitcoin is backed by the strongest, most secure network in history. It is now a qualitative difference.

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Randy Best's avatar

Bitcoin is fool's gold.

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Argiem's avatar

That's a good thing, right?

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Mike S's avatar

The Texans seem to be relatively advanced in their thinking. They managed to get the miners from China, and now China wishes they were back. Most of them don't back down to anyone, even the Fed, and they, like Trump, understand that Bitcoin money can help save even the unlimited fiat dollars controlled by the elites.

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Joe Bitonto's avatar

When the grid goes down Bitcoin, stocks, bonds, ATM’s and all the banks will conveniently go down. You’ll have no access to anything unless it’s tangible assets held outside the system. Assets specifically like pre-1933 U.S. gold and silver coins which and not subject to confiscation.

Get your money out of the bank and out of the system. Bitcoin is another Wall St. product that has no true purpose or value.

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Mike S's avatar

Try opening your mind.

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Doug Youngman's avatar

... gotta hand it to ya Mike - had me goin' that there's still 'free-thinkers'.

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Morgan Polsky's avatar

Good grief

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